There is certainly no debate that studio moviemaking has put a central focus on superhero movies, and big budget franchises. The shared universe formula perfected by Marvel is now being chased by every rival in Hollywood, properties of anything with potential blockbuster potential from comic books to TV shows are being optioned and put into development, and essentially, the characters and heroes that were once treasured by a niche market of proud nerds has gone completely mainstream. But moreover, this material isn’t just for kids. Adults are openly and actively embracing their inner child, debating often at extreme lengths about the minutiae of Jared Leto‘s Joker look, whether or not Ben Affleck will be a good Batman, or the finer points of the "Star Wars" universe. And Simon Pegg — a geek favorite, author of "Nerd Do Well," and star of the rebooted "Star Trek" movies — has his concerns about what this means on a cultural level.
It seems to be something of a crisis for Pegg who admits he may "retire from geekdom" and pursue what he calls more "serious" acting (but not after he co-writes "Star Trek 3"). But does he protest too much? Or does he have a point that there is more to cinema and life than superheroes punching each other out? We know you’ll have a lot to say so hit the comments section.
Michael, superhero comic book movies have the moral complexity of children\’s books. while they do contain universal themes both children and adults can enjoy, these films are not, in any way, deep. your example of good displaying evil and vice versa are lessons every child learns before the teen years. so let\’s not kid ourselves that these films add anything to our collective culture apart from escapism and a good time at the cinema.
This is disappointing, coming from Pegg. He\’s entirely missing the point of the very genre he\’s both a fan of, and disparaging. Childish? Comic books are not \’childish\’, OR infantile. As a child, I did, of course, enjoy the fights and cool tech. As an adult, however, I see the deeper meaning of the stories; the personal journey of the characters as they develop from what they were to what they become. On the surface: Good vs. Evil. Deeper: Good can display evil, and evil can display Good. That\’s adult, Simon, not infantile, and I don\’t have to watch "Kramer vs. Kramer" to get that, bub. Perhaps it is YOU who needs to grow the hell up.
It\’s an interesting point, but it also seems to ignore the fact that geekdom genre can also involve important and topical issues of our time. Think of Star Trek Into Darkness… A single man commits acts of terrorism, so militant higher-ups want to use it as an excuse to provoke a full-blown war, using "long-range" torpedoes, aka drones. Think of The Winter Soldier… Hydra obsessed with stopping wars before they happen using helicarriers and a computer algorithm… use of drone motif again. If these metaphors go unnoticed, its because people are not looking, not because they don\’t exist.
Cinemas are just adapting and finding its new place in our digital age. The stronger dramas aren\’t gone at all, in fact there are produced more well written "serious" dramas now than ever before. It\’s relocated to another medium called TV.
@Vincnt (near top of comments section): He\’s called Mr Pegg, not Mr Clegg. Also, could you please explain how adults are supposed to be infantilized by feminism?! An outrageous claim such as this demands an explanation.
Calling manchildren out as manchildren is only guaranteed pain. Especially when you\’re probably one of the most famous manchildren on earth.
I\’m gonna take it you havn\’t seen the new avengers, gen. You know, the movie about an advanced artificial intelligence evolves to want to kill mankind, that "sci" thing that stephen hawkings and elon musk have warned to be careful about. Pretty Sci in there and relevant, so you and simon pegg should brush up a little.
Edgar Wright – Yeah, \’cause everything in the world is about money. Yes?
And sorry, but the new Trek films ARE complete thoughtless garbage.
I think he is doing a disservice to Marvel Films actually. The reason for their popularity is also about the universal themes in them, and some allegory – although I\’m not going to pretend it\’s high brow. Just saying there is more complexity to them as he well knows. There is surely room for various types of films and it\’s about those commissioning films to make that choice if you\’re talking about studios. Small scale – closer to Independent filmmakers continue to make more adult fare. Lastly, it may be a sign of the \’socio-economic\’ time we\’re in, in times of less money, we want more escapism and so it does reflect what is happening to some degree?
I agree, but only to a very limited point. It\’s not the material being used, it\’s how it\’s being converted. The source material does often have deeper issues, etc. But the studios feel that only the flashy SFX will matter, and that general audiences will not support a deeper translation to the screen. They are looking at profits over doing justice to the source material, and that\’s where they\’ve lost their way. And Pegg should realize that if he\’s really a true fan.
Yep, the last time I watched \’Stalker\’ I was sitting there feeling really infantilised.
Its an interesting thought but i think hes missing a larger thread that sci fi and fantasy have brought more serious character themes and integrated them into their film making and production.
^case in point?
There is certainly a tendency for insufferable cheesiness and self-righteousness, or self-satisfaction, among certain groups. Everytime someone doesn\’t treat the genre with the right amount of respect, a big multinational crisis committe will have to convene, where the cheesiness and self-righteousness will be re-established. Because one cannot talk about it as just any other fallible topic in the world, and if there are faults to it, they nonetheless have to be established in a sufficient consensus, and by no one not recognized as an insider.
And any time a sub-group is entitled to convene a similar meeting if there is the suspicion (or just tactical expediency of the claim) of a similar lack of respect among each other, and it is complely impossible to determine by ordinary arguments who is right, and whose claim makes sense, because ultimately anyone\’s and their preference\’s inviolability will have to be recognized.
He\’s absolutely right.
I think that\’s kind of a broad statement to be making without any kind of statistics to help back his claim. When exactly was the age of solely intellectual film making, or film watching? And while I ask that, I\’m NOT agreeing that those films aren\’t made today. I\’m not even sure I agree with idea that superhero or comic book movies AREN\’T intelligent movies that make us think. Most recently Age of Ultron, as an example. And those who do watch only these movies Pegg claims that are infantilizing us, am I to immediately assume they don\’t turn on the news, or read about current events. I think this is a low blow, and I think he could be shutting doors that would otherwise be wide open to him.
I totally agree with Simon P. I am glad someone who knows all about it said it. After watching The Avengers 2, I realized that "superhero films" are the new definition of EPIC FILMS as a genre. There was the time that EPIC films were about war or historic events. It also was related to period or big budget films as for example Titanic. Now EPIC is about fictional wars and unreal characters with unreal situations. How on Earth can we relate to THOR issues about life, even if we take that character as a kind of metaphor and we compare him to an ordinary man today? I used to enjoy superhero films on a level, first because they were kind of fun and on the other hand, it is where all the production companies with special effects are going. I say that because I love SCI FI, and what I love about it, is how those films take us to different realities and also introduce us characters and situations that we can rely today. With superhero films everything is done and told. We know they will win at the end. Nobody dies, not even the villains. They might have interesting moments, but that’s all. From my point of view, I think is so annoying how the cliffhanger of those films is exactly the same: A GIANT THING FLYING OVER A CITY. If it is not a giant spaceship, it is a stadium, or a city… It has happened in all of those films lately. It is sad that big production companies are focused only on that, instead of bring new original stories. I agree with the comment of CHEBD, they are not making good big budget films lately. In conclusion I am done with superhero films because of all that. But I respect whoever like those. Good for them.
He is right for the most part. Average movie goers are very ignorant now and everything that isn\’t a blockbuster they call it "pretentious" and younger people haven\’t watch great cinema or classic cinema in their lives. Ask a teen which film for the 60\’s or 70\’s he likes or what are his/her favorite foreign films, they won\’t answer you.
Pegg is a fake who\’s worked his way as far as he can into geek – culture stardom and his current lamentations indicate he needs a new gig because he\’s milked this one for all he can get. Worst suck-up ever.
Pegg is a fake who\’s worked his way as far as he can into geek – culture stardom and his current lamentations indicate he needs a new gig because he miles this one for all he can get.
Worst suck-up ever.
This too shall pass :p in other words ; enjoy it while it lasts.
#1 there have always been dumb films.
#2 it\’s not the genre that\’s dumbing everything down. if done well, comics, scifi, fantasy can have a LOT to say. I mean, look at the original Star Trek. Look at the things the various popular comic series touched upon.
If we\’re looking for things and people to blame… there\’s TPTB (of which he kinda is one – the writers. but also the directors and the studios) who think we\’re all stupid and that are afraid to take risks. and then there\’s us viewers and fans who don\’t demand more (and vote with our wallets if it comes to that).
The genre is what you make of it.
sorry you pop cultured addicted peter pans, he is SOOO correct, we need grownup blockbusters again, even all it was a reboot at least Mad Max was a step in the right direction, but still we need the next one of these that starts an original franchise
@ROB be careful where you\’re going there, taking your point to it\’s conclusion, if it\’s returns we\’re talking about then I suggest we start broadcasting the torture of Islamic captives into cinemas, and if we could work out a way of anonymous purchasing the rape of female celebrities would probably find a wider return than we could stomach. The idea of the money being the only responsibility only works when you can count on the morality and intellect of human beings and we surely can\’t. The movies manipulate minds, that\’s the point and a HUGE responsibility beyond the green
Yes, I liked superheroes, sci-fi and stuff but I still am a regular human being that have a life with a lot of struggles. In the last week I saw Avengers, Ex Machina, Mad Men, Nightcrawler and Calvary. I don\’t feel like a kid. But I get wath he\’s saying and it might be true to some extent for the "regular folks" out there, which wouldn\’t consider film as art anyway.
Well it\’s a chicken, egg thing. Are comic book movies to blame for the culture of simple minded thinking we\’re enduring or are they a consequence of the simple minded culture? I\’d probably go with the latter, I think it possibly more to do with years and years of black and white imperialist propaganda used to define and reduce toxic political & socio political scenarios down to easily digested we\’re great, they\’re evil narratives. While the entertainment industry as a whole is based on pumping out simple minded responses to life\’s complexities, most of the comic book genre does seem to come under the banner of barely disguised propaganda.
Fans of sci-fi and comics should be wary of Hollywood. They are making too many super hero movies. People will get sick of it, just like ever other fad. The movie will continue declining in quality until even the most die hard fans throw in the towel.
He says that, but he\’s just talking. I wanna see him make Deer Hunter and expect a return.
Please, if you want to insult Pegg in a way that has some semblance of truth to it, you say his entire career is based on riding Edgar Wright\’s coattails.
Maybe this means he will actually try hard to have a point in Star Trek 3. But honestly, the non-sci-fi schlock on TV is just as, if not moreso, juvenile. Good sci-fi asks the hard questions. Drama asks dumb questions nobody needs answered because they\’ve had that crap happen to them, anyway.
The dumbing down of society has been happening for a long time and the evidence of this in the movies is across all genres and started well before the super hero fad. Take a look at The Changeling with George C. Scott – it was a slow burn that didn\’t wrap up everything in a neat little bow for the audience. You had to give it some thought and were given the freedom to walk away with your own opinion. Now, most movies have the Hollywood happy ending, simplified plots, and lots more "stuff" happening to keep the audience from walking out. I definitely get what Simon\’s saying, but in no way is it limited to, or caused by, our obsession with sci fi or superheroes.
Much of what passes for thoughtful, meaningful journeys about life and who we are had segued to television (save for fall Oscar season).
Yes because money is everything.
Wait… since when are superhero movies science fiction?
I completely agree with Simon pegg. Comic book movies are complete diaper audience trash. Ruining cinema.
I completely agree with Simon pegg. Comic book movies are complete diaper audience trash. Ruining cinema.
Forget the person making the comment. The comment in itself is the issue. What Mr Clegg says is correct. Adults of today (especially my generation known as Millenials) are increasingly infantilized by popular culture, social media, Hollywood, and feminism. Clegg is only speaking about one tip of a colossal iceberg. I was watching the film Michael Clayton and remember having the same sentiments that Clegg was sharing. It seems we\’ve become a dumbed down society and we can\’t seem to grow out of the childishness.
The problem isn\’t so much that sci-fi and comic book movies have become mainstream. It\’s that they\’ve become standard action films, the "sci" part has been more or less removed.
Well, he has more money that you, you dufus.
Pretty pointless thing to say, just because there are a lot of dumb films out there doesn\’t mean that people watch only dumb films. I love marvel movies but I also enjoy art house stuff too. Stick to acting in terrible garbage like mission impossible and Star Trek, you\’re part of the problem.
Pretty rich from a guy whose entire career is based on slagging George Lucas and appearing as an annoying sidekick in studio crap.
Forget the person making the comment. The comment in itself is the issue. What Mr Clegg says is correct. Adults of today (especially my generation known as Millenials) are increasingly infantilized by popular culture, social media, Hollywood, and feminism. Clegg is only speaking about one tip of a colossal iceberg. I was watching the film Michael Clayton and remember having the same sentiments that Clegg was sharing. It seems we\’ve become a dumbed down society and we can\’t seem to grow out of the childishness.