Joaquin Phoenix Talks Mike Mills’ Lovely ‘C’mon C’mon,’ ‘Joker’ & The Gentle Art Of Interviewing [Interview]

I think you’ve figured out the art of interviewing, Joaquin, you can just take my job. But seriously, when you think about it, you’re describing one of the central tenets of acting: listening and reacting, which is primarily what good interviewing is actually, in my mind. It’s being alive to the conversation, wherever it goes.
I never listen to anyone when I work [laughs]. I’m kidding. You’re right, though, listening is the important part…[pauses]

Well, acting is reacting, right? So they say.
Dude, I don’t know, I don’t know what acting is. But uh, yeah.

Tell me about working with Woody Norman because you’ve got two levels of kids in this, the ones you’re interviewing, real kids, and then this new kid who’s new, but an actor and a seemingly sophisticated one.
You know, I often wish I could go back before I knew anything about the business and the industry and what little I know about the filmmaking process. There’s something unguarded, freeing, and beautiful. So, it was inspiring to be around Woody because he is very smart. He really understood what his character was going through and how to access it emotionally.

It wasn’t like, there’s this kid who’s roaming around and we’re capturing him on film documentary style. He was super bright and knew what he was doing.  It was interesting, for me in some ways, because sometimes, if you’re an actor and the protagonist in a film, you sometimes feel a real responsibility to move things forward. And with Woody and this experience, oftentimes I had t, allow him to express himself and react to that, but to not control it.

That was the nature of our relationship and who Jesse, the character, was. Jesse is the force that is dictating and altering these people’s lives around him. So, in some ways I think maybe some of the experiences mirrored that to me. I might be accustomed to going in and controlling your scenes somewhat, and this really allowed stop and think and see, “what is he going to do? And then how can I support that?” I had a great time with him. I have a lot of admiration for him, it was a lot of work for somebody so young, Of course, it reminded me that I started out so young.

And back then, a lot of the acting is pure instinct, right?
Yeah, the acting is coming from a great place, purity without any insecurity, without any understanding of expectation, all of that.

But that said, it also gets better as an actor, the more you learn, the more challenging, the better, etc. So, as you work, there’s more for you to overcome as well.  I got away with that for a few years, pure instinct, but then it’s like, “shit, I can’t just do that anymore.” So, it actually gets better, but I will tell you, there were a couple of moments where… I try to forget about the filmmaking machine as much as possible— camera marks, lights, and camera, blah, blah. I think that’s part of what’s important, right? To get rid of all that.

And that just came naturally to him. He doesn’t give a fuck about a mark [laughs], he just jumps up on the chair that he runs over there. He doesn’t care where the lights are or whether he’s in the frame, he’s not noticing that. And I’m like, “oh, that’s so beautiful.” I think those are the things you want to encourage in actors and young actors. Like don’t get into the mindset where they’re telling you you’re great because you hit this mark and said this line the way they wanted, you know, that’s not really special.

James Gray used to say you played like you’re all instinctual, but you knew exactly what you were doing.
Well, sure, I’ve been doing this since I was eight years old. It’s the nature of the thing. You do so many damn takes you’re eventually gonna learn something. There’s a certain amount that’s technical that you just learn, but you need to come up with ways to trick yourself and… stay in the moment. I mean, I don’t know what happens. I don’t know if you stay in the moment or not [pause]. I don’t care…

[Laughs]. OK, quickly, cause we’re coming to a close, will you work with James or say Lynne Ramsay again? I’d count those films up there with “C’mon C’mon,” your best works.
Yeah, I mean, I hope so. I admire and love them as people and filmmakers, so I’d love to.

So, there are some rumblings again that a sequel to the “Joker” is coming back or there’s movement. Is that true? Is that a thing?
I mean, I dunno. From when we were shooting, we started to —you know, uhh, this is an interesting guy. There are some things we could do with this guy and could [explore] further. But as to whether we actually will? I don’t know.

The fact that you were opened up to it is, I think, pretty big, though, no?
Really, what do you mean?

I mean, being open to this kind of thing.
About what kind of thing?

C’mon, you know! Being open to a sequel with superhero franchise connotations to it; that kind of thing!
What kind of thing? Interesting character, interesting movie?

Alright, Fair enough. Good talking to you again.

“C’mon C’mon” is open in theaters now in limited release. Watch the trailer below.