OK, you’ve seen “Avengers: Infinity War” and so now you’re ready to discuss the spoilers in the film. Presumably anyhow, but repeat, repeat, do not read this piece if you haven’t seen the film. Spoilers will follow.
READ MORE: ‘Avengers: Infinity War’: Unpacking Marvel’s Sprawling, Cosmic Team-Up [Podcast]
Marvel’s ‘Infinity War,’ as I’ve written in my review takes a torch to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Thanos, the mad titan, collects all the infinity stones, beats the hell out of the Avengers and the Guardians Of The Galaxy, his minions, bring an apocalypse to Earth and at the very end, achieves his goal: half the people in the universe are destroyed and, as you’ve seen in the film, disintegrate out of existence. This, of course, includes dozens of Avengers: Bucky Barnes, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, shockingly Black Panther (which caused gasps in my screening), the Scarlett Witch and, in the post-credits scene, Maria Hill and Nick Fury (“Mother-f-!”).
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But there’s a real problem here, and presumably, a big renege coming that will undo all the stakes and emotional drama of that shocking ending of ‘Infinity War.’ None of these characters are actually dead. We know, at the very least, a “Black Panther” sequel is coming, definitely a sequel to “Spider-Man: Homecoming,” and “Guardians Of The Galaxy 3” at the very least. So, we, therefore, know none of these characters are dead. This is common in comics, but it still makes (some) audiences resentful. What’s the point of someone “dying” and then robbing those scenes by just having them return in the next installment? And frankly, none of these characters are dead because you know if they reverse Thanos’ “snap”—which kills half the universe—you have to bring all the heroes back (and all the people in the world), not just some of them. So again, while fairly moving and powerful—especially the scenes of Bucky and Spider-Man “dying”—none of this is permanent, and personally, this annoys me (I did like ‘Infinity War’ a lot though).
Marvel has promised the “end” of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, or at least the finality of the storytelling they’ve been telling over 22 films. But the studio has already shown they’re constantly defaulting on those promises. Take Iron Man’s “death” in ‘Infinity War.’ It’s a holy shit moment; they’re finally going there, Thanos takes a stake right through Tony Stark. It’s a mortal wound that no human being could ever recover from. And it’s a hell of an emotional moment, with Doctor Strange, Tony’s adversary in the film, pleading for his life. But then Marvel basically tricks you and undoes the moment; Tony survives –it’s unclear if his new nanobots heal him or Thanos pulls off some magic to save him, but it’s beside the point. Marvel create this swelling, crescendoing moment, that hooks the audience emotionally to only back out on it. If the studio keeps doing this in the fourth untitled ‘Avengers’ film, nothing is going to matter, these stakes will mean nothing, and this is potentially going to mortally wound the narrative and emotional credibility of the MCU.
The real impactful deaths in ‘Infinity War’ are the ones that are permanent (seemingly anyhow): Loki (Tom Hiddleston), Heimdall (Idris Elba, who seemed to want to get out of the franchise), Gamora (Zoe Saldana, who has the “Star Trek” franchise) and Vision (Paul Bettany), though even the latter feels like one that could be reversed.
Even Kevin Feige, in our recent interview, suggested that Marvel heroes never really die. “A lot of characters can come and go, and you kill Spider-Man, and he comes back six months later, and they all die, but Bucky Barnes stays dead,” he said about a rule for Marvel comics that was eventually broken. “Until, Ed Brubaker and some folks had the idea to bring him back and we got Winter Soldier, and it was the best. It was great. So, I think it always depends.”
“There are characters that have died that will stay dead,” he promised. “There are characters in the future films that will go away and stay gone, but when you’re dealing with characters that have had stories and comics for half a century, it always will vary.”
Most importantly, Feige makes the bold boast that the ramifications of ‘Avengers 4’ will ring on throughout the MCU for years to come, repeating that same phrase: “In ‘Infinity War’ and in the next ‘Avengers’ film [we’re] heading towards the conclusion of 22 films in a way that will have permanence for many years.”
But pardon me if I feel skeptical considering how at least ten heroes “died” in ‘Infinity War’ that aren’t dead—and I’m including Tony Stark, because I’m resentful how they walked back that emotional moment suddenly. It’s a dangerous thing to do to an audience, to welsh like that. It sets a bad precedent that again, diminishes stakes, drama, and emotion—the things that make the MCU the best of all the superhero film franchises and makes their cultural impact so great.
Worse, after all these hints, vows, pledges, and insinuation, perhaps all Marvel is going to do is kill all these kinds of supporting characters (sorry, Heimdall isn’t a character we care about that much). After all, this grandstanding, all this talk about game-changing, will Marvel actually kill some major characters like Tony Stark, Steve Rodgers or Thor and rock the MCU in a meaningful and impactful way? Or will all these characters simply “go away” for now sitting on the bench for a few years until their contracts are re-upped again (and or in the case of Downey, pay him ala carte every time he makes a small appearance like in “Spider-Man: Homecoming.”
Marvel tends to set up big crescendos only to shy away from them at the last minute. “Black Panther” is terrific, but one of its biggest disappointments is how they set up the bold, game-changing moment where Wakanda tech and Vibranium could get out into the world, in the hands of mercenaries and irrevocably change Earth. “Black Panther” had such a strong sense of urgency and tension, I really thought the Marvel Universe, which tees up risks and then veers away often, would go there and change the world, instead, the movie wrapped up rather nicely with a bow on top of it. Perhaps I shouldn’t expect much more from superhero films that kill their characters and bring them back in the next installment—see “Justice League” too, a film where not one person on the planet actually thought Superman was dead—but perhaps don’t tease us in the press s and set us up narratively only to cop out in the end. Feige’s even suggested Marvel’s Phase 4 may not be called Phase 4 because the who universe will have drastically changed to the point a “Phase 4” may not make sense.
Yes, like the rest of the world, I haven’t seen ‘Avengers 4’ yet and I could be eating my words next year when Marvel potentially shocks me and really scorches their Earth permanently (which would be awesome, frankly and I’m going to be happy to be proved dead wrong), but I’m feeling dubious, mildly indignant and cynical that the studio will truly have the balls to deliver on their promise of closing the books on everything that’s come so far.
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It’s almost like Infinity War was doomed in that regard: either Thanos succeeds and wipes out half of everything, knowing that something will need to be done to reverse it, or he doesn’t succeed and it’s womp womp.
You’re thoughts are spot on and echo my own. In fact, I’ve been curious for months now why so much emphasis was being placed by the filmmakers on who might die in this film and how it will effect all the other films to come because I think people are forgetting there is essentially a Part 2 coming out in a year that has already been shot. The build up to this Avengers has made it seem like this is the last entry, as they’ve barely mentioned the next installment. Let’s not forget this Avengers was supposed to just be Part 1 of Infinity War before it appeared as though audiences had had enough of the “two-part finale” gimmick, since Hunger Games and some others didn’t do so hot, and they decided to give it a different name, one that they still haven’t made known yet. But the films were still shot together and I think should be seen as one film especially considering the ending of this one.
Now I understand that the makers need to focus on promoting this one as much as possible, all while not mentioning the other. If you say too much about the second part, audiences are going to become aware they are just getting half a film here, the one in which probably doesn’t have the most at stake, and some might just decide to skip it and watch it right before the real finale next summer. That’s why I was kinda surprised by the opening scene where both Loki and Heimdall die because even though I expected a death or two based on the filmmaker’s interviews, there were two already in the first 5 minutes of the movie. Then when Gamora died, I thought, well damn, at this rate they aren’t going to have anyone for Part 2. But that’s when I first knew the gig was up because I already know there is going to be Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and that she’s going to be in it. And then, just like you, once Tony Stark got impaled, and you could see the desperation in his eyes, only to have it completely undone 30 seconds later, makes you feel like a puppet on a string.
I told a friend before the movie that if one main Avenger has to die, I wanted it to be Stark for several reasons. One, he’s purely human and the most vulnerable. Two, he’s the oldest actor of the bunch and was the Avenger that started the universe 10 years ago, so he’s had plenty of screen time. And three, the character arc of seeing how selfish Tony Stark started out to finally seeing him give up his life for the cause (as he almost did at the end of the first Avengers) would be fitting and emotional. And yet, you still doubted they would kill off their biggest, most valuable player because once you do it, it’s done. There’s no coming back from that. So when it actually happened in he movie, the audience was truly shocked. I heard audible gasps at the prospect that Iron Man was taking his final breaths, not unlike Hans death in Force Awakens. So then to totally undo those genuine reactions that you’ve worked 10 years to obtain, completely undermines the audience. It’s the classic boy who cried wolf.
And that’s the problem I’ve always had with Superhero films. You knew they could never die or lose the battle, therefore there is simply no reason to fear anything. That’s why a show like Game of Thrones, that was clearly not afraid to kill anyone or everyone (but even it succumbed to the pressure of bringing Jon Snow back) appealed to so many people. Of course, I understand that it would clearly do this franchise a disservice to kill off the heroes you are there to see but they need to find that balance. So far, only three characters have really died in these 20 films. Yondu, Quicksilver and Agent Coulson, all minor characters. In fact, what did they actually do in this film? They actually brought back long dead characters like Red Skull! So when I see Gamora fall to her death, instead of feeling gutted, I think, “well, I bet when they get that soul stone back from Thanos, they can return it to Red Skull and get the sacrifice back. Guardians of Galaxy 3 is good to go.” And by the end of the film when literally half of the Avengers disappear, it doesn’t even feel like anyone died. I mean, we literally just saw how the Infinity Stones can turn back time when they negated Vision’s “first death” by Scarlett Witch. And not to venture off track too much, but clearly Doctor Strange saw 14 million outcomes with them “winning” only one, so he has implemented that one strategy. Otherwise, he would’ve never just given up his stone. But he literally said, “this is the only way.” I think audiences just didn’t put two and two together, and thought he meant it was the only way to save Tony’s life. I mean, if I’m wrong, I’m gonna call bullshit because if Strange just saw the only way they can defeat Thanos, why would he not go that route? But yeah, if anyone is going to die and stay dead (for a little while anyway) I always knew it wasn’t going to happen in Part 1.
Quote:
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In fact, I’ve been curious for months now why so much emphasis was being
placed by the filmmakers on who might die in this film and how it will
effect all the other films to come because I think people are forgetting
there is essentially a Part 2 coming out in a year that has already
been shot. The build up to this Avengers has made it seem like this is
the last entry, as they’ve barely mentioned the next installment. Let’s
not forget this Avengers was supposed to just be Part 1 of Infinity War
before it appeared as though audiences had had enough of the “two-part
finale” gimmick, since Hunger Games and some others didn’t do so hot,
and they decided to give it a different name, one that they still
haven’t made known yet. But the films were still shot together and I
think should be seen as one film especially considering the ending of
this one.
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The filmmakers focused so much on who would die because they think it is a huge dramatic point that will draw people into the movie. Who will die? Which superhero will die, like a fan would cry and wail “but they can’t die!!!” It isn’t any dramatic point at all, because
1. Superheros cannot die, ever. They are immortal.
2. It’s from a comic, where nobody ever dies, especially not the main characters, neither the supervillain, as he still has to be the antagonist, how can the story go on otherwise?
3. The filmmakers will want to milk this MCU for another 30 movies, hell, no matter how dumb and pathetic the story is, people seem to love it. For me a shocking sign how dumb your typical movie viewer has become and probably a bad precedent for dumbing down movies and we probably can expect that there won’t be any intelligent movies anymore with good story lines, as dumb and superficial is getting rewarded by the masses here and makes much more money.
So we do know that everybody that dies will be back. Dying and then getting revived might become the new normal. For me, Avengers held no surprise or anything of suspense or tension for me, I saw through it clear like a spy glass.
You fanboys are just the worst. Resentment? Reneging? Really? Sometimes I like to imagine fanboys reading the gospels and being all like “He came back, everything is ruined, AGHHHH.” It’s not how the story ends that is important; it never is. It is about how the characters get there. And if the reward is a literal resurrection, well, that is what stories ARE. You guys need to get out more. Read some mythology. Get a grip.
Nope, that is what BAD stories are. Stories that we don’t care about, the same as characters. Why would we care about somebody dying if they don’t die like we do, but just vanish for a while, but then are back? We would not fear death in real life if it was just like sleeping, you wake up again from it. Good stories have stakes, some things and decisions are final. If they are not, you can always undo everything, that makes a totally boring meaningless story.I guess this is normal, as it is a comic, a children’s story, that has no depth or sophistication. It is a variation on a simple theme that can never change.
Think about the original Star Wars, would it have worked when Obi-Wan Kenobi or Darth Vader or Yoda would have died and well, we knew they would be right back? Would their death been dramatic? Or meaningless, YAWN?
Uncle Ben Parker is the only Marvel comic book character that stays dead.
Well, before I saw the movie, I knew that it would hold no tension, no suspense or anything. The stakes are not high, there are no stakes: There are superheros and supervillains, and both of them, being comic characters, cannot ever die. Well, not die the way we know and fear in the real life. They would just quasi die and then reappear, no harm done. When Gamora died, I knew that this was not real. After all, she is Starlord’s love interest, the studio need her for making the movie “attractive to couples”. When everybody died, I knew this was not permanent, and then, it becomes meaningless through this. We all know that Hollywood wants to milk this puppy for another 30 movies, making billions. In the end it is just shitty story writing, a story that cannot hold my attention or interest.